HMS Doterel

[pmtrose]

My Great Great Uncle perished on the HMS Doterel on the 26th April 1881. I have a wooden carved "bible" that has been passed down the family line that is inscribed with the name of the Ship and the date that it was "blown up". Family legend(!) has it that the bibles were given to the relatives of those who died and that it was made from the wood salvaged from the wreckage.... I have been unable to prove or disprove this "story" and am interested to hear from anyone else who had an ancestor who died on this vessel or who owns one of these "bibles".

Additionally, I am very interested in the Dive to the wreckage of the vessel and am looking forward to information discovered regarding the remains of this Ship being posted to this website.

[admin]

Wow, what a fantastic story. I've passed it along to the team in the field so you can be sure they will look into it.

What was your Great Great Uncle's name?

There is a theory that the Doterel may have blown up due to an "infernal device" planted by the Fenians, in fact they took credit for it at the time. Part of what the Sea Hunters will be looking for is any diagnostic evidence that may still remain that will either backup or disprove the Admiralty report of the time, which blamed it on a flammable store of anti-corrosive paint. Any thoughts on that?

[pmtrose]

Thanks for your reply to my message.

My Great Great Uncle was Frederick Taylor who was born in Gillingham, Kent (where I live). He was a Stoker 2nd Class and listed on the 1881 Census on the HMS Doterel as being 19 years old. In actual fact, I believe he may have fibbed about his age to join the Royal Navy as my records indicate that he was only 16 years old at the time of his death!

As you know, the HMS Doterel was built in the Chatham Dockyard in 1880 (just down the Road from where I live!). Its Sister Ship the HMS Gannet has recently been restored and is currently on display in the Historic Chatham Dockyard - of which, my Dad has copious photographs if anyone is interested!!! Both my Grandad and my Dad worked in the Chatham Dockyard before it was closed.

I understand that the Dockyard has recently opened up a library - so I am hoping to visit there to see if I can find out anymore information about the Doterel.

My Great Great Uncle is not listed on the HMS Doterel Memorial Plaque in Punta Arenas - but I understand that there are discrepancies between those names inscribed and those who were reported to have died. I have emailed the website owners who show info. on the memorial, as I hope they might be able to give me some details of who I could contact about the possibility of having his name added!

The fact that I have the inscribed bible that was given to my Dad by his Nan - is proof enough for me that he did go down with this ship.

I also have photo's of the bible - if anyone is interested.

I am really excited about the dive and what you might find.

Maria Rose

[pmtrose]

Could you tell me if there will be a DVD available to purchase from your Online Shop of the Dive that you are currently carrying out to the HMS Doterel? If so, how long will it be before it is available?

Additionally, the only information that I have read about the cause of the explosion on the Doterel is what was reported in the press regarding it being the paint in the paint store. Where has the alternative theory originated from?

Look forward to your response.

[Victoria]

We are filming the episode on the HMS Doterel as we speak so check out the updates on Live from the Dive. The episode will be available for purchase but not for at least a year. However this spring we will be launching our member section which will have Sea Hunters On Demand. We will be making our library of footage (most never before seen) available to our members. You will have access to footage from this dive via the members section before the show even airs. So becoming a member this spring will be a fast track to awesome footage.

As for the cause of the sinking of HMS Doterel; although the British Admiralty claims it was anti corrosive paint that caused the explosion, the Irish Nationalist group the “Fenians” claimed responsibility. The “Fenians” had has luck previous to this event sabotaging British targets with TNT bombs known as “Infernal Devises”. All of this information was public record, we have news paper articles on the story. Right now the Sea Hunters are in Chile trying to figure which one is true. Underwater CSI.

[DavidB]

Ref the "bible"

An old aunt of mine died last year and amongst the bits and pieces that that have arisen is a small wooden book. Made from a single piece of wood it's about 3" x 2" and 1/2" thick. The top face has an oval carved out and the words HMS DOTEREL carved within the oval. Curiously the underside has been rebated and a lead plate has been set in. (maybe to give it extra weight ??)

Does this sound like a "bible" referred to.

My aunt's family name was Browne, the family were English, lived in London and her father was an officer with the New Zealand Shipping Co. who was buried at sea just before WWII

I am afraid no story has been passed down as to how the little wooden book came into the family. However I thought the story may be of interest.

[jhelmer]

My great-grandfather was aboard Doterel when she blew up. His name was Henry J. Walker, Engineer Captain, travelling as a passenger to reach his assigned ship. He’s probably not on the crew list, if there is one.
When Doterel blew, Walker was thrown, unconscious, into the sea. He was wakened by a passing spar that hit his head and saved his life, as he told my mother many times when she was a child.
The Doterel was towing a Bible ship and I understand the crew of that ship rescued the survivors. Even though both ships were in port, I have been told that the Doterel’s boiler was fully fired up and may have exploded.
My family is interested in learning as much as possible about this shipwreck as my great-grandfather spoke of it often. We are expecting more information from another of his grandchildren, and will gladly share it with you.

[I posted this already as 'new topic' but realize it isn’t new after all!]

[lisa]

Thank you very much for the information. It has been interesting reading.
At first the Admiralty warily thought the sinking might have been due to a gas explosion from the coal, but this was later discounted, AFter several other ships reported explosions due to a substance called xerotine siccative or a patent drying agent used in the ship's paint. it proved highly flammable and was disconutined.
the HMS Dragon was actually a closer sister ship to the Doterel, as there were changes to her stern deck, etc. and thus she was closer in construction to Dragon rather than Gannet.
THe Chatham Dockyards were very helpful but do not have a great deal of information on the Doterel. I have several newspaper articles and reports, documents etc, from the National ARchives and the Admiralty Library in Portsmouth. they outline the court martial in detail and there are reports on the xerotine siccative investigation.

I am awaiting arrival of hte captain's letters and reports, so hopefully they will shed more light on this "bible ship". I have not come across info on this within the docs that I have so far obtained.
Thank you so much for your input and info and I will be in touch hopefully with further info.

[pmtrose]

I can't believe that my original email has created such a response!!! I am really pleased that someone else has one of these "wooden" bibles - although mine sounds slightly different to the one described by DavidB. Mine has a wooden cross that lies proud of the front of the bible and it is engraved in the centre with the Star of David. "HMS" is above the cross and "Doterel" is engraved below. The bible has been carved back-to-front, with the spine to the right... eg. if it was "real" you would read it from the last page to the first (hope that makes sense!). It doesn't have anything rebated into it though.

What is a "Bible Ship"? I have never come across this before.

I know that the Ships' Carpenter - "Baird" was listed as one of the Survivors... perhaps he had something to do with these "Bibles"?!

Lisa - the documents and information that you have on the Doterel from the National Archives and Portsmouth Archives etc sound fab! I would love to exchange info as we come across it - but am concerned about posting my email address onto the site - just in case... Any ideas?

If this site's administrators have any ideas/tips or reassurances on this point - perhaps you could let us know?

Please could you also let me know how long do these messages stay on the site for?

Thanks

Maria Rose

[admin]

Maria Rose,

We hate spam as much as anybody so we do take steps to protect our users from it, as well as ourselves. If you post your email address on any public forum on the Internet you run the risk of it being automatically "scraped" by spammers. The act is illegal, but it does still happen.

We have our forums configured so that the email address you enter when you join is never shown publicly, but it is still possible for other users to email you by clicking the email link in your profile. If you would like to share your email address with others a common practice is to replace the "@" symbol with something else such as "_at_" or to add the words "nospam" somewhere into your posted email address. This confuses the automated spammers but is simple for a human to edit to get your correct address.

As far as the longevity of messages, we believe that a community is best served when there is some permanence to the messages, so we like to keep them around for as long as is possible. That way three years from now someone else who is researching the Doterel, or maybe has a bible of their own, can still read these messages and gain some knowledge from them.

I hope that helps.

Thor

[jhelmer]

More information has now reached us and they are fascinating indeed!
From the Times of London is the account sent to the Secretary of the Admiralty by Commander Evans of Her Majedsty’s late ship Doterel, writing from the Brittania which carried survivors to London.
The Commander describes two explosions. The first was in the starboard gangway and the second, much larger, from chartges and other explosives carried in the fore-magazine. Interesting is the fact that the shell-room and gun-cotton magazines, all stored aft of the mainmast, did NOT explode.
Doterel’s boilers were continuing to run hot for condensation purposes (for drinking water).

The Times printed two letter extracts a few days later, sent by the Clerical Secretary of the South American Missionary Society’s London office. Here’s our BIBLE SHIP explanation. From Captain J.C.T. Willis, master of the society’s mission yawl, the Allen Gardiner: "I was towed throujgh the first narrows by Her Majesty’s ship Doterel and anchored at dark on the 22d. Since then this vessel foundered by explosion within 200 yards of the Allen Gardiner. ... she anchored near us, intending to coal by lighter."
Cpt. Willis goes on to describe the scene, the damage done to his and other ships, and how he immediately set out with crew to rescue any survivors.
My mother is delighted to know that her grandfather is one of those named in the Captain’s letter.

I hope to scan these documents for sharing.

:wink:

[jhelmer]

The wink means nothing. I didn’t put it there!
_________________
DriverPhD
"Be Just and Fear Not"

[Lisab]

Hi Maria,
Just letting you know that I would be happy if you used my email address...i have sent you a pm with my address. i have info for you about records at the Nat Archives...and hope you can look a few things up for us.
Many thanks!
Lisa
Researcher
Sea Hunters

[steve albin]

Hi pmtrose,

I am related to Charles Mitchell IRVING who died on board the Doterel.

Most of his family came from Gillingham,Kent and were related to Joseph Mitchell,Master,Royal Navy.

Kind Regards

Steve

[Coojee]

Although I knew nothing of the Doterel before I encountered it here I have enjoyed learning more about it & thank you for sharing your stories. The bibles sound fascinating - it's a pity a lot of the stories of memorabilia disappear so easily.